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Post By
Would be Watcher

Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Bk Ray

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,929
Subj: I'm not sure I understand your point anymore...
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 at 05:47:01 pm EDT (Viewed 592 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Was Cersei that bad?
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 at 01:38:07 pm EDT (Viewed 559 times) initially seem to be asking if Cercei was that bad compared to the rest of Westeros. My understanding was you were asking this question from a moral POV. 

Now, the goal seemed to have moved to how things looks rather than how they were. 

Maybe things looked like Ned was a traitor from Joffrey's POV, but unless you truly believe it would have made a shred of difference to Cercei or Joffrey that Ned was lying or not I don't see why you continue to play devil's advocate here. Your clients are impossible to defend based on their motive and actions. If you truly think otherwise, you and me were not looking at the same show. There is nothing Cercei or Joffrey wouldn't have done if they could get away with it. I don't see how you can think the same of any of the Stark's.

    The penalty for treason is death.
Yes, but Ned was no traitor and Cercei knew this.

    A soldier deserts his post, whilst appearing under great stress is executed by an experienced Lord.
Yes. If it was me, I would have investigate more in-dept. However, regardless of the veracity of the man's claim, he is still a deserter. He chose to escape the Night's Watch rather than report what he saw to them. He knew the penalty for this. Ned reluctantly applies the law of the noth because he had to enforce those law to preserve their integrity.

    A high lord admits treason to seize power by making up disgusting lies about the monarch - how is this better than the above?
The high lord didn't "admit" anything. He accepted to lie to save his family. He, in fact, isn't guilty of treason at all. It looks like he is guilty, but he isn't. Beside, Ned was content to die before Varys told him about Sansa... 

Bottom line, when you compare Ned to Cercei or Joffrey, you have to ask yourself, what motivate them to act the way they did. Was truth and justice as important to Cercei or Joffrey as it was to Ned? Ned motive was always to do what was "right" and "honorable". You might dispute what actually was "right" (Ned did make mistakes), but you can't argue his intentions. Cercei or Joffrey never cared one second about justice or truth. The life of others had no value to Cercei or Joffrey. Ned tried to save Cercei's children despite taking a stupidly huge risk. 

I see no reasonable comparison on a moral ground between the characters you have involved in this discussion. 

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